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	<title>Comments on: On downward mobility</title>
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	<link>http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/03/on-downward-mobility/</link>
	<description>The Personal Politics of Resisting Capitalism</description>
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		<title>By: Obstacles to Community Care &#171; Bursting At The Seams</title>
		<link>http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/03/on-downward-mobility/comment-page-1/#comment-46153</link>
		<dc:creator>Obstacles to Community Care &#171; Bursting At The Seams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jun 2011 23:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=176#comment-46153</guid>
		<description>[...] a huge help.  Small things are very appreciated. I also want to challenge folks to consider income redistribution and be honest with themselves about their class [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a huge help.  Small things are very appreciated. I also want to challenge folks to consider income redistribution and be honest with themselves about their class [...]</p>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/03/on-downward-mobility/comment-page-1/#comment-138</link>
		<dc:creator>david</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=176#comment-138</guid>
		<description>As a &quot;settler&quot; society (I&#039;m referring to Sakai&#039;s characterization), i don&#039;t think that american society is really capable of producing fully realized human beings. This is related to what Huey Newton was talking about when he explained how, through slavery, the white man deprived the black man of his mind, but in so doing, he deprived himself of a body. The fight for personal liberation is a *personal* fight, but also a *social* fight. There is a potential unity here that, for me, is very powerful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a &#8220;settler&#8221; society (I&#8217;m referring to Sakai&#8217;s characterization), i don&#8217;t think that american society is really capable of producing fully realized human beings. This is related to what Huey Newton was talking about when he explained how, through slavery, the white man deprived the black man of his mind, but in so doing, he deprived himself of a body. The fight for personal liberation is a *personal* fight, but also a *social* fight. There is a potential unity here that, for me, is very powerful.</p>
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		<title>By: Links - 2009-03-23 at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture</title>
		<link>http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/03/on-downward-mobility/comment-page-1/#comment-137</link>
		<dc:creator>Links - 2009-03-23 at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=176#comment-137</guid>
		<description>[...] Enough - On Downward Mobility A couple weeks ago I was having a talk with somebody at a coffee shop in my neighborhood, and I noticed some graffiti on the bathroom wall that said: “Downward mobility is not radical.” Incidentally, the talk I was having that day was with a young white class-privileged person who was struggling with what to do with some inherited money, and we were talking about wealth and social justice and giving away inheritance and all of these things, and the whole time I kept pondering the graffiti and thinking that actually, downward mobility is radical. Wouldn’t it be very radical if all wealthy people gave away their money and spent only what they needed to live? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Enough &#8211; On Downward Mobility A couple weeks ago I was having a talk with somebody at a coffee shop in my neighborhood, and I noticed some graffiti on the bathroom wall that said: “Downward mobility is not radical.” Incidentally, the talk I was having that day was with a young white class-privileged person who was struggling with what to do with some inherited money, and we were talking about wealth and social justice and giving away inheritance and all of these things, and the whole time I kept pondering the graffiti and thinking that actually, downward mobility is radical. Wouldn’t it be very radical if all wealthy people gave away their money and spent only what they needed to live? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: tyrone</title>
		<link>http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/03/on-downward-mobility/comment-page-1/#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator>tyrone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 03:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=176#comment-139</guid>
		<description>Nat, thanks so much for your thoughts! I think it&#039;s so important to connect money exchanges with actual human interaction and emotions and relationships - I think people&#039;s discomfort with giving money directly to other people - especially to people asking for it on the street - is so connected to not wanting to feel things or really let in the actual impact of wealth disparity and accumulation and our complicity in it. I agree that it&#039;s important and powerful to acknowledge and value that exchange as something that&#039;s not about charity but about just normal human interchange and sharing and respect. It&#039;s also interesting that the more money people have, the more freaked out they seem to be by folks asking for a dollar in the subway. Another example of how wealth can make people kind of pathological.

Matt - I was so hoping that someone would say they knew that graffiti! (Actually I was hoping that someone would say they wrote it but it&#039;s still cool)
I didn&#039;t know you were my neighbor!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nat, thanks so much for your thoughts! I think it&#8217;s so important to connect money exchanges with actual human interaction and emotions and relationships &#8211; I think people&#8217;s discomfort with giving money directly to other people &#8211; especially to people asking for it on the street &#8211; is so connected to not wanting to feel things or really let in the actual impact of wealth disparity and accumulation and our complicity in it. I agree that it&#8217;s important and powerful to acknowledge and value that exchange as something that&#8217;s not about charity but about just normal human interchange and sharing and respect. It&#8217;s also interesting that the more money people have, the more freaked out they seem to be by folks asking for a dollar in the subway. Another example of how wealth can make people kind of pathological.</p>
<p>Matt &#8211; I was so hoping that someone would say they knew that graffiti! (Actually I was hoping that someone would say they wrote it but it&#8217;s still cool)<br />
I didn&#8217;t know you were my neighbor!</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Dineen</title>
		<link>http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/03/on-downward-mobility/comment-page-1/#comment-141</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Dineen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=176#comment-141</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the article! I&#039;m actually writing this comment from the very cafe that you mentioned and have seen the same graffiti a number of times. I think the person who wrote it will enjoy your take on it.

Your neighbor,
Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the article! I&#8217;m actually writing this comment from the very cafe that you mentioned and have seen the same graffiti a number of times. I think the person who wrote it will enjoy your take on it.</p>
<p>Your neighbor,<br />
Matt</p>
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		<title>By: Nat</title>
		<link>http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/03/on-downward-mobility/comment-page-1/#comment-140</link>
		<dc:creator>Nat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=176#comment-140</guid>
		<description>I really appreciate your distinctions here between a privileged culture of &quot;looking&quot; downwardly mobile, and a practice of intentional financial &#039;downward mobility&#039;.  I feel like a lot of the values informing the first (disgust with consumerism/capitalism; class guilt) could be channeled somehow into the second...  except the class guilt part would somehow have to morph into something more like &quot;responsibility&quot;, which would enable people to have conversations about their wealth rather than just pretend it&#039;s not there.

I don&#039;t remember where it was, but a while ago I was inspired by Dean&#039;s discussion of how he chose to give money.  He included a bunch of really good reasons for why to give to people asking for money on the street.  One of the points I think he made was that, in this context, the importance of giving is not just economic but also symbolic - the importance of stopping and listening and recognizing somebody.  I have begun to try to recognize and respond (give) to people asking me for money, and I have gotten a lot of pleasure out of it.

I think there is something powerful in the fact that giving often feels good.  Not &#039;good&#039; in the charity-model sense of &quot;I&#039;m being so generous and amazing&quot;, or &quot;Oh, good, I feel less guilty now&quot; but because there is actually a human exchange involved, and because people one gives money to have things to give as well, even though our culture tells us that they don&#039;t.  Did that make sense?

Anyway, I think the question of whether to give to people asking for money is often a useful one to start to talk about some of these issues with friends, and to start to think about some of the intense emotions I, as a class-privileged person, have about &quot;my&quot; money.

I&#039;ve also recently started, as a first step, a personal policy of giving away (to community organizations) any sums of money ($50, $100, etc.) that come my way out of the blue.  For instance, randomly receiving an academic award, I try not to immediately latch on to it as &quot;my&quot; money, but instead think that this money should have gone elsewhere - so I&#039;ll redirect it.

Those are just some ideas I wanted to share in case they help anybody else with this stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really appreciate your distinctions here between a privileged culture of &#8220;looking&#8221; downwardly mobile, and a practice of intentional financial &#8216;downward mobility&#8217;.  I feel like a lot of the values informing the first (disgust with consumerism/capitalism; class guilt) could be channeled somehow into the second&#8230;  except the class guilt part would somehow have to morph into something more like &#8220;responsibility&#8221;, which would enable people to have conversations about their wealth rather than just pretend it&#8217;s not there.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t remember where it was, but a while ago I was inspired by Dean&#8217;s discussion of how he chose to give money.  He included a bunch of really good reasons for why to give to people asking for money on the street.  One of the points I think he made was that, in this context, the importance of giving is not just economic but also symbolic &#8211; the importance of stopping and listening and recognizing somebody.  I have begun to try to recognize and respond (give) to people asking me for money, and I have gotten a lot of pleasure out of it.</p>
<p>I think there is something powerful in the fact that giving often feels good.  Not &#8216;good&#8217; in the charity-model sense of &#8220;I&#8217;m being so generous and amazing&#8221;, or &#8220;Oh, good, I feel less guilty now&#8221; but because there is actually a human exchange involved, and because people one gives money to have things to give as well, even though our culture tells us that they don&#8217;t.  Did that make sense?</p>
<p>Anyway, I think the question of whether to give to people asking for money is often a useful one to start to talk about some of these issues with friends, and to start to think about some of the intense emotions I, as a class-privileged person, have about &#8220;my&#8221; money.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also recently started, as a first step, a personal policy of giving away (to community organizations) any sums of money ($50, $100, etc.) that come my way out of the blue.  For instance, randomly receiving an academic award, I try not to immediately latch on to it as &#8220;my&#8221; money, but instead think that this money should have gone elsewhere &#8211; so I&#8217;ll redirect it.</p>
<p>Those are just some ideas I wanted to share in case they help anybody else with this stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: tyrone</title>
		<link>http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/03/on-downward-mobility/comment-page-1/#comment-136</link>
		<dc:creator>tyrone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=176#comment-136</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your awesome questions! Those are such important things to think about, and all totally part of the conversation that I imagine happening. And, I should have been more clear that what I mostly mean by giving away money is giving to grassroots social justice orgs - I talk about this stuff so much that sometimes in my head that part goes without saying, but it&#039;s so important to emphasize.

Ooh, I have so many thoughts about all your questions - when I say &quot;living as little as possible off the exploitation of others&quot; I don&#039;t have a concrete standard in mind (capitalism makes our life choices about living justly within an exploitative economy so complex and contradictory at times) - but my sentiment was about how capitalism is such that for most of us, living off inheritance means using the profits from the un- and underpaid labor of poor people to support ourselves. So I&#039;d like to see that conversation happening a little more openly - and a big step forward seems like giving away unjustly accumulated inherited fortunes (most of which are bound up in - and profiting from - multinational corporations) to social justice work.

And I *definitely* don&#039;t think that wealth redistribution will be achieved by rich people deciding to give away their money. I think economic justice is about fighting for INvoluntary wealth redistribution. I think of giving away money more as a good practice for people who believe in justice, and also as a form of (personal, insufficient, somewhat abstract) reparations for the deep violence and oppression perpetrated by the accumulation of wealth. I definitely don&#039;t see young radical rich people giving away their inherited wealth as a solution or a way of ending poverty and oppression - just as an important thing to do that is useful as part of a broader struggle.

(And just for some of my personal thoughts about how to give money and to what types of institutions/organizations: http://www.enoughenough.org/article/104/what-i-gave-and-where-i-gave-it-2008-giving-plan/ - I don&#039;t mean like Bill and Melinda Gates!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your awesome questions! Those are such important things to think about, and all totally part of the conversation that I imagine happening. And, I should have been more clear that what I mostly mean by giving away money is giving to grassroots social justice orgs &#8211; I talk about this stuff so much that sometimes in my head that part goes without saying, but it&#8217;s so important to emphasize.</p>
<p>Ooh, I have so many thoughts about all your questions &#8211; when I say &#8220;living as little as possible off the exploitation of others&#8221; I don&#8217;t have a concrete standard in mind (capitalism makes our life choices about living justly within an exploitative economy so complex and contradictory at times) &#8211; but my sentiment was about how capitalism is such that for most of us, living off inheritance means using the profits from the un- and underpaid labor of poor people to support ourselves. So I&#8217;d like to see that conversation happening a little more openly &#8211; and a big step forward seems like giving away unjustly accumulated inherited fortunes (most of which are bound up in &#8211; and profiting from &#8211; multinational corporations) to social justice work.</p>
<p>And I *definitely* don&#8217;t think that wealth redistribution will be achieved by rich people deciding to give away their money. I think economic justice is about fighting for INvoluntary wealth redistribution. I think of giving away money more as a good practice for people who believe in justice, and also as a form of (personal, insufficient, somewhat abstract) reparations for the deep violence and oppression perpetrated by the accumulation of wealth. I definitely don&#8217;t see young radical rich people giving away their inherited wealth as a solution or a way of ending poverty and oppression &#8211; just as an important thing to do that is useful as part of a broader struggle.</p>
<p>(And just for some of my personal thoughts about how to give money and to what types of institutions/organizations: <a href="http://www.enoughenough.org/article/104/what-i-gave-and-where-i-gave-it-2008-giving-plan/" rel="nofollow">http://www.enoughenough.org/article/104/what-i-gave-and-where-i-gave-it-2008-giving-plan/</a> &#8211; I don&#8217;t mean like Bill and Melinda Gates!)</p>
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		<title>By: Feminist Review</title>
		<link>http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/03/on-downward-mobility/comment-page-1/#comment-135</link>
		<dc:creator>Feminist Review</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 06:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=176#comment-135</guid>
		<description>I do think there&#039;s something to what you&#039;re saying. My questions are: How is this different from, say, what Bill and Melinda Gates do? What does it mean to &quot;live as little as possible off the exploitation of others&quot; (i.e., who determines that)? When someone gives, to whom do they give? Individuals? Institutions? What if the institutions are themselves problematic (i.e., the nonprofit industrialized complex)? Is wealth re-distribution achieved by simply giving money away? Does wealth re-distribution include the sustainability of that re-distribution? I guess I&#039;m asking what are the next steps to making this happen. No, I&#039;m not expecting you to have the answers. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think there&#8217;s something to what you&#8217;re saying. My questions are: How is this different from, say, what Bill and Melinda Gates do? What does it mean to &#8220;live as little as possible off the exploitation of others&#8221; (i.e., who determines that)? When someone gives, to whom do they give? Individuals? Institutions? What if the institutions are themselves problematic (i.e., the nonprofit industrialized complex)? Is wealth re-distribution achieved by simply giving money away? Does wealth re-distribution include the sustainability of that re-distribution? I guess I&#8217;m asking what are the next steps to making this happen. No, I&#8217;m not expecting you to have the answers. <img src='http://www.enoughenough.org/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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