Comments on: Anti-capitalism and spirituality http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/12/anti-capitalism-and-spirituality/ The Personal Politics of Resisting Capitalism Tue, 07 Feb 2012 05:03:25 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Bruce http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/12/anti-capitalism-and-spirituality/comment-page-1/#comment-3587 Bruce Wed, 19 May 2010 16:32:39 +0000 http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=307#comment-3587 Hi Tyrone--thank you so much for this post, and thank you everyone for your posts. You're all helping me think about things I want to think about. I've had this on the mind a lot since I read it. I've been thinking about spirituality and how important it is for me to act from faith for justice rather than acting from a lot of other things I could--from guilt, from anxiety, from habit, from comfort. If I really believe my liberation is tied up with other people's, I breathe deeper and act different. I get in touch with the reality (as my friend Erika reminded me recently) that as a person with wealth, the anxiety I have about money is NOT about whether I will be able to survive--if I give away all the wealth I am inheriting, that is still not at stake. What is at stake is about a security tied to a need to have so much underneath me that it keeps me far away from other people and makes me feel a power (to me connected to whiteness) about having something to give to my children and people around me that prevents us from being affected by the crisis and end-of-the-world moment we are creating for other people. Yuck. I don't want to live that way. It does NOT make me act with openness--it makes me act closed, trying to protect that greed and hide the guilt that goes with it. SO I need faith for a lot of things. For believing that I can let go of that greed (oh everyone should listen to "Greed" by Sweet Honey in the Rock) and a need for the thing-that-is-not-just-security but about a lot of other things like white privilege and owning-class privilege. For finding another way to live and another way to feel tied to center. Faith that we can build communities that are about wealth redistribution as a part of an ongoing search for JUSTICE. And I need to grow a lot of faith in myself--because for me, one of the things that holds class privilege and wealth in place is a deep belief that without that, I couldn't do it--that I am not capable enough or strong enough to make a life and living for myself if I am not defined by always having access to wealth (which, as Tyrone points out, because of the people around me, I likely always will in a lot of ways). A lot of my prayers lately have been for questioning what I know. I think I want to add a prayer for letting go. I don't want to build centeredness on material over-security or on ego (from anything--and lately I've been thinking I really don't want to build it on ego of working for social justice). I'm not sure what I do want to build it on--I'm questioning for that too. (If anyone has ideas, let me know.) So those are some thoughts. I really REALLY appreciate this blog. Thank you Tyrone Boucher and Dean Spade and other folks. Hi Tyrone–thank you so much for this post, and thank you everyone for your posts. You’re all helping me think about things I want to think about. I’ve had this on the mind a lot since I read it. I’ve been thinking about spirituality and how important it is for me to act from faith for justice rather than acting from a lot of other things I could–from guilt, from anxiety, from habit, from comfort. If I really believe my liberation is tied up with other people’s, I breathe deeper and act different. I get in touch with the reality (as my friend Erika reminded me recently) that as a person with wealth, the anxiety I have about money is NOT about whether I will be able to survive–if I give away all the wealth I am inheriting, that is still not at stake. What is at stake is about a security tied to a need to have so much underneath me that it keeps me far away from other people and makes me feel a power (to me connected to whiteness) about having something to give to my children and people around me that prevents us from being affected by the crisis and end-of-the-world moment we are creating for other people. Yuck. I don’t want to live that way. It does NOT make me act with openness–it makes me act closed, trying to protect that greed and hide the guilt that goes with it. SO I need faith for a lot of things. For believing that I can let go of that greed (oh everyone should listen to “Greed” by Sweet Honey in the Rock) and a need for the thing-that-is-not-just-security but about a lot of other things like white privilege and owning-class privilege. For finding another way to live and another way to feel tied to center. Faith that we can build communities that are about wealth redistribution as a part of an ongoing search for JUSTICE. And I need to grow a lot of faith in myself–because for me, one of the things that holds class privilege and wealth in place is a deep belief that without that, I couldn’t do it–that I am not capable enough or strong enough to make a life and living for myself if I am not defined by always having access to wealth (which, as Tyrone points out, because of the people around me, I likely always will in a lot of ways). A lot of my prayers lately have been for questioning what I know. I think I want to add a prayer for letting go. I don’t want to build centeredness on material over-security or on ego (from anything–and lately I’ve been thinking I really don’t want to build it on ego of working for social justice). I’m not sure what I do want to build it on–I’m questioning for that too. (If anyone has ideas, let me know.) So those are some thoughts.
I really REALLY appreciate this blog. Thank you Tyrone Boucher and Dean Spade and other folks.

]]> By: tyrone http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/12/anti-capitalism-and-spirituality/comment-page-1/#comment-2246 tyrone Fri, 26 Mar 2010 00:27:41 +0000 http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=307#comment-2246 Thank you so much for these reflections, Sarah! I'm really moved and impressed by the way you're thinking about this stuff. I've been continually thinking about these themes as well - what I keep coming back to is that for me, spirituality is fundamentally about connectedness, to other people and to my own humanity, and so it requires challenging the isolation and individualism that capitalism creates. That connectedness is what I want to build my own centeredness on, as you say. Thank you so much for these reflections, Sarah! I’m really moved and impressed by the way you’re thinking about this stuff. I’ve been continually thinking about these themes as well – what I keep coming back to is that for me, spirituality is fundamentally about connectedness, to other people and to my own humanity, and so it requires challenging the isolation and individualism that capitalism creates. That connectedness is what I want to build my own centeredness on, as you say.

]]> By: Sarah Apt http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/12/anti-capitalism-and-spirituality/comment-page-1/#comment-2097 Sarah Apt Sat, 20 Mar 2010 18:31:15 +0000 http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=307#comment-2097 Hi Tyrone--thank you so much for this post, and thank you everyone for your posts. You're all helping me think about things I want to think about. I've had this on the mind a lot since I read it. I've been thinking about spirituality and how important it is for me to act from faith for justice rather than acting from a lot of other things I could--from guilt, from anxiety, from habit, from comfort. If I really believe my liberation is tied up with other people's, I breathe deeper and act different. I get in touch with the reality (as my friend Erika reminded me recently) that as a person with wealth, the anxiety I have about money is NOT about whether I will be able to survive--if I give away all the wealth I am inheriting, that is still not at stake. What is at stake is about a security tied to a need to have so much underneath me that it keeps me far away from other people and makes me feel a power (to me connected to whiteness) about having something to give to my children and people around me that prevents us from being affected by the crisis and end-of-the-world moment we are creating for other people. Yuck. I don't want to live that way. It does NOT make me act with openness--it makes me act closed, trying to protect that greed and hide the guilt that goes with it. SO I need faith for a lot of things. For believing that I can let go of that greed (oh everyone should listen to "Greed" by Sweet Honey in the Rock) and a need for the thing-that-is-not-just-security but about a lot of other things like white privilege and owning-class privilege. For finding another way to live and another way to feel tied to center. Faith that we can build communities that are about wealth redistribution as a part of an ongoing search for JUSTICE. And I need to grow a lot of faith in myself--because for me, one of the things that holds class privilege and wealth in place is a deep belief that without that, I couldn't do it--that I am not capable enough or strong enough to make a life and living for myself if I am not defined by always having access to wealth (which, as Tyrone points out, because of the people around me, I likely always will in a lot of ways). A lot of my prayers lately have been for questioning what I know. I think I want to add a prayer for letting go. I don't want to build centeredness on material over-security or on ego (from anything--and lately I've been thinking I really don't want to build it on ego of working for social justice). I'm not sure what I do want to build it on--I'm questioning for that too. (If anyone has ideas, let me know.) So those are some thoughts. I really REALLY appreciate this blog. Thank you Tyrone Boucher and Dean Spade and other folks. Hi Tyrone–thank you so much for this post, and thank you everyone for your posts. You’re all helping me think about things I want to think about. I’ve had this on the mind a lot since I read it. I’ve been thinking about spirituality and how important it is for me to act from faith for justice rather than acting from a lot of other things I could–from guilt, from anxiety, from habit, from comfort. If I really believe my liberation is tied up with other people’s, I breathe deeper and act different. I get in touch with the reality (as my friend Erika reminded me recently) that as a person with wealth, the anxiety I have about money is NOT about whether I will be able to survive–if I give away all the wealth I am inheriting, that is still not at stake. What is at stake is about a security tied to a need to have so much underneath me that it keeps me far away from other people and makes me feel a power (to me connected to whiteness) about having something to give to my children and people around me that prevents us from being affected by the crisis and end-of-the-world moment we are creating for other people. Yuck. I don’t want to live that way. It does NOT make me act with openness–it makes me act closed, trying to protect that greed and hide the guilt that goes with it. SO I need faith for a lot of things. For believing that I can let go of that greed (oh everyone should listen to “Greed” by Sweet Honey in the Rock) and a need for the thing-that-is-not-just-security but about a lot of other things like white privilege and owning-class privilege. For finding another way to live and another way to feel tied to center. Faith that we can build communities that are about wealth redistribution as a part of an ongoing search for JUSTICE. And I need to grow a lot of faith in myself–because for me, one of the things that holds class privilege and wealth in place is a deep belief that without that, I couldn’t do it–that I am not capable enough or strong enough to make a life and living for myself if I am not defined by always having access to wealth (which, as Tyrone points out, because of the people around me, I likely always will in a lot of ways). A lot of my prayers lately have been for questioning what I know. I think I want to add a prayer for letting go. I don’t want to build centeredness on material over-security or on ego (from anything–and lately I’ve been thinking I really don’t want to build it on ego of working for social justice). I’m not sure what I do want to build it on–I’m questioning for that too. (If anyone has ideas, let me know.) So those are some thoughts.
I really REALLY appreciate this blog. Thank you Tyrone Boucher and Dean Spade and other folks.

]]> By: Per Stinchcombe http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/12/anti-capitalism-and-spirituality/comment-page-1/#comment-354 Per Stinchcombe Mon, 28 Dec 2009 02:04:29 +0000 http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=307#comment-354 The Mennonite theologian John Howard Yoder talks about "responsibility" in a different context, but one which I think sheds some light on the relevance of faith to social action. He uses it in talking about pacifism -- the "responsible" course of action is to abandon pacifist naivete and use violence to prevent violence. I think this conception of responsibility has a lot in common with the idea that it's irresponsible to give up material security. In both cases, what's "responsible" is to accumulate and use coercive power (in one case, directly through the use of force; in the other, the privileges of wealth, which are backed up by the coercive power of the state) in order to achieve desirable, even noble, ends. Yoder's response to this -- one that initially didn't work for me, but which I've found increasingly compelling -- is that as Christians, it's not given to us to worry about responsibility in this sense. Since we can't possibly know all the possible consequences of our actions, no matter how much power we accumulate and how much force we use, we can't ever be assured of success. So our job is not to worry about consequences -- our job is to do what's right, and leave the rest to God. Yoder talks about activism in terms of efforts to bring about the Kingdom of God, but in secular terms what he's talking about is the anarcho-syndicalist idea of creating the seed of the new society within the shell of the old. By living as though the Kingdom of God (which, for Yoder, involves radical sharing and the abandonment of coercion) is already here, we help to usher it in. I think what I'm getting at is that renunciation of worldly power is much easier when you believe that you can contribute to the creation of a new society as much through your powerlessness as through your power -- and that, on a fundamental level, that belief is almost always based in faith, not reason. The Mennonite theologian John Howard Yoder talks about “responsibility” in a different context, but one which I think sheds some light on the relevance of faith to social action. He uses it in talking about pacifism — the “responsible” course of action is to abandon pacifist naivete and use violence to prevent violence.

I think this conception of responsibility has a lot in common with the idea that it’s irresponsible to give up material security. In both cases, what’s “responsible” is to accumulate and use coercive power (in one case, directly through the use of force; in the other, the privileges of wealth, which are backed up by the coercive power of the state) in order to achieve desirable, even noble, ends.

Yoder’s response to this — one that initially didn’t work for me, but which I’ve found increasingly compelling — is that as Christians, it’s not given to us to worry about responsibility in this sense. Since we can’t possibly know all the possible consequences of our actions, no matter how much power we accumulate and how much force we use, we can’t ever be assured of success. So our job is not to worry about consequences — our job is to do what’s right, and leave the rest to God.

Yoder talks about activism in terms of efforts to bring about the Kingdom of God, but in secular terms what he’s talking about is the anarcho-syndicalist idea of creating the seed of the new society within the shell of the old. By living as though the Kingdom of God (which, for Yoder, involves radical sharing and the abandonment of coercion) is already here, we help to usher it in.

I think what I’m getting at is that renunciation of worldly power is much easier when you believe that you can contribute to the creation of a new society as much through your powerlessness as through your power — and that, on a fundamental level, that belief is almost always based in faith, not reason.

]]> By: P. Swan http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/12/anti-capitalism-and-spirituality/comment-page-1/#comment-305 P. Swan Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:05:25 +0000 http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=307#comment-305 Thank you for writing this - for me, spirituality involves action based on my spiritual beliefs. The connections you drew between your own spiritual beliefs and how you live/work/what you do with your finances is inspiring and illuminating. Your experiences and thoughts remind me the importance of taking action. My beliefs may do me good, but what good am I doing in the world and in my communities if I don't act on those beliefs? Thank you again. Sincerely, P. Thank you for writing this – for me, spirituality involves action based on my spiritual beliefs. The connections you drew between your own spiritual beliefs and how you live/work/what you do with your finances is inspiring and illuminating. Your experiences and thoughts remind me the importance of taking action. My beliefs may do me good, but what good am I doing in the world and in my communities if I don’t act on those beliefs? Thank you again.

Sincerely, P.

]]> By: Anne Ellinger http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/12/anti-capitalism-and-spirituality/comment-page-1/#comment-299 Anne Ellinger Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:30:25 +0000 http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=307#comment-299 Tyrone, thanks so much for writing this! As someone who is spiritual but not religious, I related a lot to your blog. You and your readers might enjoy continuing the conversation with Tom online at this link: http://boldergiving.org/site/index.php/2009/11/19/featured-giver-tom-hsieh/#comments I'm going to put the link to your blog there, too, and send it to Tom. Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts. I hope more Resource Generation folks participate in future calls. Warmly, Anne Tyrone, thanks so much for writing this! As someone who is spiritual but not religious, I related a lot to your blog.

You and your readers might enjoy continuing the conversation with Tom online at this link:

http://boldergiving.org/site/index.php/2009/11/19/featured-giver-tom-hsieh/#comments

I’m going to put the link to your blog there, too, and send it to Tom. Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts. I hope more Resource Generation folks participate in future calls.

Warmly,
Anne

]]> By: Cox http://www.enoughenough.org/2009/12/anti-capitalism-and-spirituality/comment-page-1/#comment-290 Cox Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:47:56 +0000 http://www.enoughenough.org/?p=307#comment-290 Wild. The Winter Solstice is tomorrow and an activist/artist/community facilitator/healer is hosting a gathering.. I've never really known much or given the Winter Solstice much thought until now. Ritual - Share an offering. Yes, I am into this. A percussion duo play exotic instruments at sunrise, this time every year at Links Hall. I have never gone. This year, I really want to go. And more than that, I've been craving spiritual connection very much actually. Alot of positive, integrated, wholistic, social justice healing is swarming around me these days which is amazing because it's so close I can practically taste it. Since being diagnosed with mastocytic colitis (mild inflammation of colon), I've been eating more raw and focusing on my colon health which includes yoga, but OH if i could only make a weekly ritual. Why is that so difficult? For myself, it is hard to keep to routine. To take my fish oil every morning and to go to yoga or find a quiet space to meditate. I want this regularity but then I despise and reject it, claiming flexibility and spontaneity as my defense. I am joining a Be Present support group with some artists and activists. Alot of processing and taking care of people's needs and desires is involved. Fear and intimacy are all so connected to spirit. A burgeoning Be Present community is forming in Chicago. So much spirit and healing is really front and center. Many organizers are quitting their NPIC jobs because its abusive and scarring of the spirit. Harishi went back to India to meditate in solitude, address hard conversations with his family while going to an outlying warring village as an ally, possibly potentially dangerous if they find out he is American. He comes back in time to join Chicago USSF organizing and share his peaceful mind and insights with us. Lots of self-care services to raise money for grassroots groups. The more integrated, the more spirit-filled, including the VENUS art and resistance event last night. Social justice holds it close and dear. I do get nostalgic this time of year for choral music, for requiems and large theatrical cacophonies. I grew up Episcopalian. This is about all I love of the church and would prefer Meredith Monk even gregorian chant, more divorced from christian texts. Universal. Omnipresent. But I still find myself listening to the classical station and digging out old choral albums to play on the turntable. We used to go to midnight service to support my dad, enjoy the theatrics, sing along with the horns. Perhaps this year. It might be good to visit old memories. Wild. The Winter Solstice is tomorrow and an activist/artist/community facilitator/healer is hosting a gathering.. I’ve never really known much or given the Winter Solstice much thought until now. Ritual – Share an offering. Yes, I am into this. A percussion duo play exotic instruments at sunrise, this time every year at Links Hall. I have never gone. This year, I really want to go. And more than that, I’ve been craving spiritual connection very much actually.

Alot of positive, integrated, wholistic, social justice healing is swarming around me these days which is amazing because it’s so close I can practically taste it. Since being diagnosed with mastocytic colitis (mild inflammation of colon), I’ve been eating more raw and focusing on my colon health which includes yoga, but OH if i could only make a weekly ritual. Why is that so difficult? For myself, it is hard to keep to routine. To take my fish oil every morning and to go to yoga or find a quiet space to meditate. I want this regularity but then I despise and reject it, claiming flexibility and spontaneity as my defense.

I am joining a Be Present support group with some artists and activists. Alot of processing and taking care of people’s needs and desires is involved. Fear and intimacy are all so connected to spirit. A burgeoning Be Present community is forming in Chicago. So much spirit and healing is really front and center. Many organizers are quitting their NPIC jobs because its abusive and scarring of the spirit. Harishi went back to India to meditate in solitude, address hard conversations with his family while going to an outlying warring village as an ally, possibly potentially dangerous if they find out he is American. He comes back in time to join Chicago USSF organizing and share his peaceful mind and insights with us. Lots of self-care services to raise money for grassroots groups. The more integrated, the more spirit-filled, including the VENUS art and resistance event last night. Social justice holds it close and dear.

I do get nostalgic this time of year for choral music, for requiems and large theatrical cacophonies. I grew up Episcopalian. This is about all I love of the church and would prefer Meredith Monk even gregorian chant, more divorced from christian texts. Universal. Omnipresent. But I still find myself listening to the classical station and digging out old choral albums to play on the turntable. We used to go to midnight service to support my dad, enjoy the theatrics, sing along with the horns. Perhaps this year. It might be good to visit old memories.

]]>